Family Legacy: Generational knowledge passed down

Jonathon Goldhill is a masterful business coach and personal strategist specializing in guiding next generation leaders of family businesses to scale up their businesses as they take control of the leadership and ownership of the family business.

Jonathon left New York for California at age 20 after his family’s large privately held men’s apparel manufacturing company, started by his great grandfather, sold to a conglomerate in its third generation of family ownership. Within 10 years, Jonathon had established himself as the go-to expert for entrepreneurs looking to find their version of freedom.

Today, Jonathon brings 30 years of experience to his clients advising, coaching, consulting training and guiding entrepreneurial and family businesses.

For more information on Recovered On Purpose, to get your free copy of Adam’s book, to see the merch store or book your free call with Adam, visit: https://RecoveredOnPurpose.com

Read The Transcript Below

what the government on purpose family I’m so happy you are here for this week’s episode of the recovered on purpose show guest Sundays today we have an incredible guest we have Jonathan good Gold Hill here and we’re going to be talking about from the family’s perspective um how it looks to be taking care of somebody that’s struggling and also how to be building something incredible and helping people build businesses love you guys so much enjoy the show and keep living recovered on purpose

that’s from which we came the white represents the light in which we now live and the bread represents the passion it takes to live recovered on purpose

all right guys welcome welcome welcome today we have an incredible incredible guest I’m excited to have a conversation with Jonathan Gold Hill is a masterful business coach and personal strategist specializing in guiding Next Generation leaders of family businesses to scale up their businesses as they take control over the leadership and ownership of the family business Jonathan left New York for California at age 20 after his family’s large privately held men’s apparel manufacturing company started by his grandfather his great grandfather sold to a conglomerate in its third generation of family ownership within 10 years Jonathan had established himself as the go-to expert for entrepreneurs looking to find their version of Freedom their version of Freedom today Jonathan brings 30 years of experience to his clients advising coaching Consulting training and guiding entrepreneurial and family businesses guys I’m super excited to introduce you to Jonathan Gold Hill what’s up brother hey Adam I’m you know super stoked to be here I’m uh I’m back in New York actually I’m in Southampton New York and I just got kicked out of the main house where I have my podcasting mic and setup and everything so I’m working out of a pool house here because we got uh we got folks coming to the house to do some work construction work today so I hope I’m coming loud and clear and I’m looking forward to the conversation loud and clear loud and clear so Jonathan you have a you have a podcast yourself Also let’s talk about that first what are you doing with that podcast and uh what is your what is your target for it what do you want to do for people so I started the podcast um God a year and three quarters ago so it it launched the same week that my book launched it’s called disruptive successor the book is called disruptive successor a guide to driving growth in your family business the podcast is really a resource for Next Generation leaders so I talked to family businesses family business experts advisors to family businesses and then of course I get lots of interest from other people people who want to promote themselves and are in the marketing or Finance or you know it could be in a lot of different spaces and so these are resources to help Biz entrepreneurs understand that they’re not alone they’re not isolated same type of deal I’m sure that you’re doing to reach people that you know need to hear messages of enthusiasm motivation and gain some knowledge so amen I love it and in your and the reason why I doubled down on on something that was said in your bio I’m going to pull it back up it says um you are helping you’re the go-to expert for entrepreneurs looking to find their version of Freedom what do you mean by their version so I think everyone’s got a different version of Freedom so you know go back to in my own family my grandfather’s version of Freedom was he was a new new immigrant to the United States and he and his brothers and their fathers I mean I think they wanted to build something that was really big they were hustling they were working you know Non-Stop and they became so successful that my grandfather was involved in building hospitals and uh universities and um you know this was he had a 2000 employee company so it was quite large and it was quite successful it was very philanthropic for me um having grown up in what I would say was in if affluent upper middle class whatever privileged uh life where we had ski vacations and went to Europe and I mean it wasn’t over the top fancy but it was it was pretty comfortable at summer camps I mean I lived a really great life and so my version of Freedom was to have a lifestyle business that would allow me to do stuff that I do work that I love and give for the good of others and so I was involved in non-profit organizations I was in I ran a non-profit Economic Development firm for 10 years so giving back has always been super important for me and now it’s about basically having the lifestyle that I can do my work wherever I am I can travel and so I think every entrepreneur’s got a different definition of freedom some might be what my grandfather’s was like they want to make a killing they want to make a lot of money and I’m guessing that was my grandfather’s I mean um some might be at a point where they just really want to make a difference others might want to have enough money so they can live anywhere or travel I mean I think Financial Freedom is definitely something a lot of us are seeking and so it’s but but everyone defines it differently yeah do you find that there’s that there’s a line of questioning where we have to get through some of the the stuff that we’re supposed to say with what we want for our version of freedom to get down to the root of what we actually want yeah so one of the coaching questions that I used to ask very early on when I was doing group coaching was how do you define success and I think most people and maybe this is my bias but I think most people define success as like the biggest house on top of the hill with the most amount of money and you know I don’t know like just Financial Freedom with so much money and I I think that that’s not a reality for a lot of people um a reality is is hey you could live a really comfortable life and you might be able to even afford a second home a place in the mountains or out of the city or wherever you live but like you’ve got to Define it yourself you know I know a lot of families that have not a lot of money but they have a lot of love and a lot of togetherness and a lot of quality time with each other and there’s a healthy Dynamic there that it didn’t exist in my family of origin mostly because um well my mother had lost to was widowed twice so she lost two husbands when I was growing up so you know but having that like emotional freedom and having really healthy relationships like that’s pretty cool you know you don’t have to be rich to have that yeah absolutely and I’m I’m currently living in Medellin Colombia and you know the uh the cost of living down here is much lower I’m really enjoying doing what I’m doing I enjoy doing this podcast and enjoy doing these shows I do free calls with addicts people in recovery you know loved ones of addicts all day basically and for me right now that’s like that’s a version of Freedom a version of you know I’m not making making the seven figures and stuff like that you know and that’s that’s okay a for now I have that for later on in my life but what I had to Define was what I want to be doing right now what I want to be building right now and I had to get to the core myself because I told you before we recorded that I had something happen at the end of Q3 last year and that thing that happened that I didn’t tell you was actually I lost seven figures of net worth in a business that I built in my recovery and I had to reassess I had to reassess you know what was what was going on in my life what I truly wanted what I was truly here to build and you know I’ve found a lot more freedom in building something that I’m passionate about building something that I believe that I’m bringing something to the world than when I was really building a business just for money right so I feel like something might have happened there that it’s a lesson right to to continue moving forward um tell me about some of the people that you’ve worked with and kind of some breakthroughs that you have had working with people yeah you know it’s a but before I do that I’m kind of wondering if addicts and entrepreneurs have more in common than I thought which is um that they for many of them it’s a roller coaster ride it’s you know it’s big UPS it’s big Downs it’s Financial gains it’s Financial losses it’s um I mean I have family members uh a family member in particular I’ve lost family members to addiction um and the cousins and and I have a family member who’s very close to me who whose life is a roller coaster so um I so I so as I think of entrepreneurs who have had really great successes and I started and I wrote my book based on a central individual who is just winning award after award he’s on the cover of National magazines uh for his industry he just won an award for 40 under 40. um he’s the central character in my book who I keep coming back to he is what I call the disruptive successor who is a Next Generation leader who took his father’s business that had about 10 to 20 employees averaging 15 averaging about a million and a half in revenue and profitable some years not so profitable in bad years and that company seven years later working together has consistent growth and it’s doing 14 million dollars in revenue and it’s you know close to a 10 percent net profit and uh it’s gone to a hundred and 20 employees and it’s continuing to grow and so it’s really great to ex to be uh it’s really a blessing for me to be this person’s mentor and coach and guide and advisor and to watch him you know absorb every single suggestion that I made you know back in our early days I I was doing a lot of reading of business books not So Much Anymore and every time I mention a business book that I thought had a good lesson for him I mean by the next week he had picked it up and by two weeks later he had finished it and this is a guy who pretty much dropped out of high school around 10th grade not because he was not smart enough um just because his friends were using drugs and he could have gone down that path he’s lost a few friends to drug overdoses and so he could have easily made you know a turn down one of those wrong roads um he had a really healthy family life and um there was something about him that was driven and basically his dad made him come to work when he was like 16 if you’re not going to go to school then you go to work and you know he’s uh took over at the age of 25 and now he’s 32 and married to his his sweetheart of eight years and uh living the life of a lot of freedom traveling a lot learning from a lot of people and bringing a lot of great messages back to his company it’s a great I mean I do keep coming back to that story because it’s just it’s so awesome um but you know I there are other stories that are not as awesome or successful but where Next Generation leaders and and mostly these are in family businesses because I find that you know when you’re 25 to 40 years old you’re much more probably coachable and uh um but I found that others have like made great lives for themselves bill you know having families just creating stable homes stable employment for a lot of people it’s uh it’s really great to watch that and it’s you know I think it’s hard for some entrepreneurs who don’t have any of the kind of schooling um or coaching or advising that I’ve had and been given and they ride a bit more of a roller coaster ride and I think that’s that’s really tough you know they don’t teach you how to you know these are the people that get embezzled from or you know that start making bad decisions I mean yeah yes we I mean there’s there’s so many there’s so many different lessons in life right and you said it earlier that addicts and entrepreneurs have a lot in common and the interesting thing is that there’s a lot of entrepreneurs you might know that aren’t really open about the fact that they have 13 years clean and sober they don’t talk about the fact that you know I dove into my business I dove into building this because I didn’t want to go back down to the use of drugs right and then you also said a couple things about you know mentoring and coaching right right and that’s what you do that’s what you do for these young men and you get them to this point and what kind of brought you into that did you have mentors or men that you looked up to that taught you a lot of what you know that kind of made you want to pass this down or how did that look in your life wow that’s a really interesting question I’ve never quite looked at it from that perspective but uh because I really came into coaching from Consulting and I my story was always I was I was never really the entrepreneur but I was always the guy who was hanging around with the entrepreneur and working alongside the entrepreneur and and uh and and helping them and so I always thought of myself as the number two guy the Chief Operating Officer the the CEO Whisperer the entrepreneur that you know the guy will listen to the entrepreneur but honestly uh you know as you ask that question the way you framed it um I look back on my childhood and I lost a father at the age of two uh my my stepfather was in my life from five to nine he passed away as well um or eight and a half and then nine nine and a half my mother married and divorced him at 16. so you know by the time I was a teenager I had three fathers stable mother and I had developed a pattern of seeking out teachers um uh mentors older men living you know that I was always kind of looking for that Father Figure in life and so I think that naturally equipped me to recognize that if you’re uh a guy like the one I just spoke about earlier whose father maybe was successful in providing for the family but he built the business that was basically based on his technical abilities he was kind of what I call a technician entrepreneur um well if if you have a dream a vision of building something larger and you have no idea how to do that then you need to get a mentor or an advisor and so having gone to business school gotten a formal degree in entrepreneurship having had several of my own businesses several of which fail a couple of which had some successes to them I mean you learn a lot from that experience and so you know when you recognize that like what got you here like maybe you got to the business where your dad’s running it for a million and a half it’s not going to get you to say you need a different set of skills to get to a 10 million dollar company who can mentor you so just made sense absolutely so you said something else about uh you said the word coachable right these men that are like 25 to 40 and how he would you know you would suggest a book to him and by two weeks he’s already finished the book um what have you found for the difference in the impact you’re able to make on someone’s life if they’re coachable versus not coachable and what does it look like when somebody’s coachable or not coachable oh that’s a great question so I think that the impact I’m not able to make an impact on someone who’s not coachable um and they don’t stay with me for more than three months if I bring them on at all you know if I can recognize the simple signals right away and I’m like you know I don’t think you’re going to be able to be someone I could work with um I haven’t said that too often it takes more maybe some uh a lot of experience in seeing what’s who’s coachable and who’s not but um the difference someone who’s coachable is humble first of all they have the humility to know that they don’t know all the answers that if they follow and listen all into their voice and follow their path that they may not get to where they want to get too fast faster or fast enough if they’re coachable they’re also really hungry they’re hungry to learn so they they lean in to the coaching calls and meetings they lean in to the homework or the suggested uh work that was given by the coach to do they’re leaning into the whole process if you say look you know it’ll probably take one to five hours of outside work a week and this is not like homework exercise this is stuff that you probably have to do in your business no matter what it’s just when you do it they’re the ones doing five hours and then you know adding another book on top of that of five hours so they’re doing 10. um so humble hungry and smart is another term that comes to mind they’re they’re emotional intelligence is uh above average and they’re working on improving it they know that if they want to be a good leader they need to read books about about leadership they need to understand what leadership is they need to they need to walk the walk talk the talk they need to lead in such a way that people will follow them if you’re not creating followership then you’re not really a leader and so a lot of people struggle to create leadership and so someone who’s coachable is someone who really leans into trying to figure out what leadership looks like and and what their version of leadership is how it how it’s going to play out so those are a few things there is a page in my book I think where I have 20 different characteristics of what is coachable versus not coachable um but I don’t have it in front of me awesome yeah all right so you said something else there also you said um you know if they’re not coachable they may not get there faster or fast enough so let’s say someone just acquired this business and I’m talking from a perspective of I’m a coach also and I coach addicts and Recovery how to share their stories powerfully with the world to impact as many addicts as possible right right I’ve been on dozens and dozens of podcasts featured in treatment magazine Authority magazine recovery Today magazine I was on the cover with Tom Arnold with my article just these things that I’ve that I’ve done I want to show other addicts in recovery not to take the five years that it took me to build all this stuff right yeah so what have you noticed with coaching a coachable person when they might have like a five to ten year plan and then following the steps that you know what do you think a 10-year plan could turn into with the right coach so I think a 10-year plan could be accomplished in three to five years if it’s uh you know because people underestimate probably what can get done if they have the right group of people um they’ll get there much faster and a 10-year plan suggests someone who has a lot of clarity about what they want their life to look like and they’d like to get there fast um and so a lot of times you know people who aren’t like people who don’t have a 10-year plan will be 10 years and I I was one of those by the way I never had a 10-year plan it was always to sort of find and live my freedom and and follow my passion and and so it’s very in the moment but if I had had a 10-year plan I would have probably been where I’m at today in my business like several years ago um I think that you know sometimes as coaches right we we teach what we need to learn and sometimes we teach what we know hopefully we always speak from our experience right like I think one thing about entrepreneurs who are coaching other entrepreneurs it’s like addicts coaching addicts like you can only speak from your experience because you know you know as we were talking about earlier before we got on there is like you never know when the person’s ready for Recovery like you don’t we don’t know like you and I could like for me bottom would be a much higher bottom than probably a lot of people that maybe you know that like their bottom was like wow I couldn’t believe it got that low like yeah you know I mean I know addicts who have lost their homes lost their families lost their you know they’ve lost their car they’ve lost their jobs they’ve lost everything I don’t know too many of those people I would have thought that the first lesson would have been enough to stop but it wasn’t and so um it’s really helpful when we speak from our experience I think that’s one thing when we’re coaching people and I a lot of times I mean a lot of my knowledge is is is learned from working with other businesses from reading books on literature and staying up on what people are saying in the best practices so I’m not sure even what the question was anymore what would you say are the top five uh leadership books that you would suggest to someone that wants to become a better leader yeah so the books that I like the best and I find easiest to read are autobiographies or biographies and um I was a big fan of Jack Welch’s book his first one was called Jack and it was straight from the gut and it was an autobiographical uh book that gave you a flavor of who he was growing up but then really taught you like what did he do when he was at General Electric how what were the practices and principles and like everything you’d want to know about strategy and Leadership I think

in terms of what he did and what are still best practices today you could read from that book um I’m a big fan of John Maxwell completely different perspective right he’s coming from being a pastor um and working with entrepreneurs and being this incredible orator and author and I mean the book that I read I think it was called the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership is probably his best one he’s written so many versions of that book but they’re great stories about leaders in all walks of life um I thought that was really good you know I wasn’t going to say this but um a really good book on leadership is a book by Carol dweck called the growth mindset and it’s about a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset and the reason why I thought about that was because John Maxwell tells stories from all walks of life politicians sports figures entrepreneurs years religious people I mean so Carol dweck also similarly looks at people who have a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset I think if you’re going to be a leader you have to have a growth mindset 100 and if you want to know like the full breadth of what leadership looks like I think John Maxwell covers it the best so love it so those are like two or three books that come to mind there’s there’s so many others that just sort of were secondary to me yeah have you checked out a Phil Jackson’s book yet I have not but I’m a big you know my favorite have you ever got a biography I’ve read so far yeah really okay I’m ordering it today I mean I like you know um um I was watching the showtime Lakers television show with uh Jerry Buss and uh you know his leadership style while not one that I would um like hold up is like you want to emulate this guy right because he was like kind of a womanizer Boozer like that’s not usually who I like hold up as leadership examples but you know he had that same kind of vision about growing the Los Angeles Lakers at a time when the NBA was almost on the verge of bankruptcy and the Lakers were were not a great team and that kind of create like fanatical

um fanatical desire to make something better and be imaginative like that’s of the of the level of Elon Musk and Steve Jobs Elon Musk whose biography I’m listening to right now I mean the fanaticism like an eccentric like it doesn’t make for someone you want to work for but it builds companies that um other people can make into like place you want to work for yeah does that make sense totally totally like Elon is probably really really difficult to sit and have a conversation with because he’s so robotic and he’s thinking about 13 other things over here and then he might not hear what you’re saying right but his coo his his CEO Whisperer might be the one that’s able to like manage the cruise and things like that right yeah and I love that you uh you are you know aspiring and enjoying these people that are thinking big right these these Visionaries that you know they think about world changing things the fanatical things that everybody he says that they can’t do and that’s that’s me like that’s I can’t I’m in the I’m in the very like earlier stages of of the things I want to do with with my fanatical thoughts about addiction and and the reality that I believe that if something has this big of a problem where we’re having this many overdoses that are going like this and we have a system that’s been in place for you know 50 years 60 years since since Insurance started paying for treatment and we have a three percent success rate in the treatment industry for heroin and meth addicts then isn’t there something that could solve this problem isn’t there something new that could solve this problem right and if if there was then doesn’t that mean that somebody has to come together right I believe in I believe in networking I believe in bringing people together but I refuse to believe that we’re just supposed to let overdose rates continue to rise that that addiction is incurable that there’s no way that we’re going to be able to help these people that are struggling because I was I was dead I was dead in my addiction and I’m almost five years clean and sober like I’m almost I’m almost five years from from something can I actually show you a video yeah a little it’s a little rough um but this is November 6th of 2015. this is body cam footage

this is where I was in my addiction they found me with no breath no pulse and I’m really blessed to have this have this footage because a lot of times I’ll have conversations with people and like like I was telling you earlier you know you might not know that an entrepreneur was an addict I have conversations with people I meet all the time that are like they’re like wait you you were an addict you were homeless five and a half years ago I’m like yeah man I was I was at the very very bottom 148 pounds all that but the the reality of what an addict can do in recovery to me is is infinite infinite because an addict that has suffered with with those that kind of Darkness that kind of place where you know they feel trapped I’ve talked to women that have been through some of the worst things you can possibly imagine and have gotten out of that trafficking um you know childhood things you know um and and they’ve gotten out of that and recovered in a way where they’re a completely different person so I believe that these ones that recover are able to do things for those suffering that you know that no one else can and if we came together with a new solution we could actually end this thing we could end this thing so what do you think about the 12-step program because they sort of they tout themselves as like the only solution and for I mean most addiction recovery places are based on the 12 step I would I would guess I mean most I’ve looked into many of them over the years for for a family member and they all almost most of them are based in the 12-step program and I mean it seems to work uh as someone who’s been through the Al-Anon and tried to do the the steps I I didn’t get very far I didn’t really enjoy the meetings very much they were kind of painful I actually like going to the uh the AAA meetings a lot better I thought people’s stories were raw and I was moved and emotionally touched the other ones just felt like people were vomiting in the room yeah yeah so I am a huge proponent for the 12 Steps uh if it weren’t for the 12 steps I wouldn’t I wouldn’t be where I’m at uh however I believe that there’s certain types of addiction and there’s certain nuances for addiction recovery that have to be uh included that have to be discussed and I do not believe that the 12 steps are the only way right and I think that it’s really important that the that the people that are gung-ho big book like I I was at one point in my recovery but then because I’ve talked to so many different addicts who have recovered in different ways some of them have done it with suboxone and then if this person over here is telling this person Suboxone isn’t recovery blah blah blah you know then why is it that someone that needs Suboxone to recover why would they feel comfortable using that right in my belief every single person that has found recovery whatever their journey to recovery is they have to be sharing what that is with people that are struggling right because some people can’t do the 12 steps while they’re withdrawing from Fentanyl and heroin it’s it’s really hard to make it three four five six seven days off of opiates when you have been addicted for a while because you are sick right people that haven’t been through the opiate addiction can’t understand what it’s like to need a drug literally they did brain scans as bad as you need water or to breathe that’s what opiate addiction is doing to people and that’s why even though after that it took me two more years to get clean and sober after that video I just showed you yeah no I’m I’m not surprised I mean even once you you know you’re the first year of sobriety must be quite a challenge I would think and there you I would imagine you need to rewire your brain and I mean there’s a place in LA Los Angeles that does brain scans the aim in clinic I don’t know how accurate these are like curling photography or like Aura oral type photography but it shows the brain scan and you know I think that a brain that’s used a lot of drugs has got is riddled with holes and you know it’s not fully it’s not it’s not a healthy looking brain and while they’re still while they’re still using them yes but they’ve also I’ve had a good friend of mine who’s a neuroscientist a neurosurgeon onto the show also and neuroplasticity is a hundred percent real for the entire for our entirety of life right um so that means that an addict that was suffering in you know meth heroin crack fentanyl these kinds of things we can heal period and it’s as if like in I believe it’s every seven months taking years to take can you do it in three months or I mean it doesn’t happen right away it can’t so there’s there’s different forms of treatment that work differently for different people so with meth it’s they’re thinking it’s right around like 13 to 16 months for our brains to come back to to um reality basically like not thinking certain things about certain things um with heroin and Fentanyl because the half-life is so long we can actually feel the physical cravings for a long period of time we can remember that in a different way than than a meth addict remembers the the high of meth because meth addiction is way more mental than it is physical gotcha and then heroin and Fentanyl is way more physical than it is mental and there are new forms of treatment now there are things that people need to be talking about more and more and more and there needs to be ways that we’re using them for treatment um I know of something called ibogaine and you know this is this is illegal in the United States okay and I I don’t understand how a country that has the worst drug epidemic on the planet is not doing more research on helping us right right I did ibogaine in 2013. I had a three gram a day heroin habit went down to Mexico the issue with the place that I went to is that they were doing an ibogaine retreat with no real treatment afterwards right so I went down there when I come out of the ibogaine trip the 24th 36 hour trip I come out they’re giving me weed and then I get sent back with a sheet of acid so four to six months later I went back to the same environment went back to the same friends the same apartment everything was the exact same that I went back to with no no Aftercare plan right four to six months later I have a I have a needle in my arm so my belief is that someone that you know if we could use treatments like that something like this in order to get an addict to a place where they have that neuroplasticity because that’s literally what ibogaine does right it makes your brain completely neuroplastic it makes it so that all the habits that you have formed at this point in your life are completely you can completely redo them so if we get somebody to that point then find out you know what are your goals what are your dreams what are your aspirations and then walk them through this for a year their first year of recovery then what are the possibilities for that person and then if that was successful and that was working then why are we not doing that in America on a large scale if we’re losing a hundred and seven thousand plus people a year to fentanyl yeah I mean there’s there’s no good uh answer or explanation and they’re doing some testing with psychedelics with mushrooms with uh you know things in this country but like the War on Drugs basically made marijuana and an illicit drug for so many years we’re so and look the rest of the world is kind of in the same place right so um I don’t know seems like it’s going to be a long time before things straighten out and you know but maybe it’ll happen faster maybe the faster that uh weed becomes legal in all 50 states then they’ll open the door to like hey let’s look at some of the other drugs that weed it’s a gateway drug to or supposedly a gateway drug and let’s see what we can do to help people I mean I don’t know I don’t know the answer I know in in um in uh where is it uh uh that they’re giving away free hair they’re giving away heroin Sweden uh Sweden I wasn’t sure what country it was in Portugal also Portugal has a different program right that’s the one I was thinking of and um you know I don’t know is that the right way to go but obviously we need solutions that are better than what we’re doing you know yes 100 so have you ever did you ever go down a path of of drugs or alcohol that kind of stuff that was ever problematic or anything no never I mean I’ve always been a social Drinker and and a social user recreational user of drugs um and not always I mean I think when I was a parent I I still probably drank but I like my use of other recreational drugs was almost eliminated during much of the first probably 15 years of parenting um never was an issue for me I I don’t have an addictive personality type is what I always say I do think addiction is a genetic disease from what I can tell um you know and uh I know I know a family member uh who’s adopted came from different genetics and that person struggles with drug addiction substance abuse and mental health issues fortunately for me I mean you know I’ve had the garden variety of mental health that that a lot of people live with which is just you know sort of like generalized anxiety at least that’s what any therapists I’ve ever gone to has always put on the insurance form so we could collect some reimbursement but I you know it’s worth about 13 probably a session so right um I think I’m just your garden variety neurotic that uh sometimes and it seems like you’re kind of addicted to success in building businesses and helping people build these businesses and things and that’s you probably there’s there’s a huge dopamine rush in in reaching successful Milestones right yeah watching somebody else that you’re helping reach those Milestones right and you know I think I used to get so losing my father when I was two uh and it was his second uh heart attack so he had a massive coronary he was in Greece on vacation and died came back in a box and I think that it was a life-defining story and I’ve told myself that story for most of my adult life um I needed to live past 35 before I was going to get married I always had to be fit so it was always exercising I mean I’ve been an athlete since I was a kid and athletic and I noticed just I’m in my um I’m 64. so I’ve noticed in the last few years I’ve slowed down quite a bit I’m not as driven to get on the bicycle I used to ride 40 50 sometimes 80 100 miles on a Saturday and then go out on Sunday and do another you know 20 or like 30 as a cool down ride I mean um I’m not you know I’m not driven like that anymore I I don’t I’m much more I’m I’m Kinder and gentler on my body doing walks uh long walks doing stretching you know I still participate in yoga but I’m not as active as I used to be I don’t have a rigorous practice like I used to maybe that’s just the time of my life right now so I think that there’s a dopamine Rush that comes from that kind of endurance type activities it means to come back from those bike rides and I was completely like high on oxygen for the next like 48 Hours um and I’ve come back from yoga class where I was high on oxygen for at least like 12 hours or you know to the next yoga class so um

yeah coming from coming from your perspective of you know not really struggling with addiction or or having that that uh understanding of you know being stuck with something but you’ve had family members that you love you know you’ve even had some that you’ve lost what is your perspective as you as you watch this addiction happen what do you feel for that person what are you thinking for that person in that moment

boy it’s complicated I think there’s a level of compassion for them that you know why is it that they can’t be reached like emotionally what’s what’s not working what’s broken for them um there’s a degree of anger that you know they’re not doing better that they’re not taking care of themselves that this is not what you what you gave to them um

and so a certain amount of frustration and I think at some point with you know if it happens over and over you probably you throw your arms up in the air um uh I mean I yeah those are some of the feelings I think that come up it’s I think addicts put other people through a lot and it’s I I think that there’s a certain amount of selfishness maybe narcissism uh I I don’t know seems hard to understand why they do it yeah maybe they just don’t see any other Solutions or any other opportunities or you know they’re or they’re living a life where this is what everyone else is doing you know it’s a peer group yeah yeah so let’s let’s talk about that a little bit um what do I want to go with that so for me I I definitely caused a lot of harm in my addiction um most of the harm that I caused was directly because of my inability to stop my constant lying about using and things that were harming me right I didn’t do a lot of the stealing or the you know hurting people specifically like that but I caused a lot of harm to my family because they’re worried if they’re going to get the phone call that I died right and during that time I I don’t even know if I was you know I was even surrounding myself with some good people you know if you have you heard of the book UNF yourself uh uh I think Gary John Bishop I think I have it in my I think I was given that book yeah I haven’t read it though yeah so he was he was actually coaching me weekly one-on-one while he was writing that book and I was an addict you know so here I am I’m I actually am surrounding myself with good people um I have I have you know a lot of opportunities I’m able to sell door-to-door and with a needle in my arm right but I can’t stop using the drugs and I believe that if there were something if there were something to pull us out of because at the end I was around a lot of bad people because that was the only way I could get drugs right I was around a lot of a lot of people when I was homeless and you know I wasn’t able to keep in contact with Gary I wasn’t able to keep in contact with my other coaches but how do you how do you see your core five people that interact with you and engage with you how do you see them forming more of your life more of your feelings more of your thoughts do you think it’s important who you surround yourself with no matter where you’re at in life I think the the saying is is you’re the average of the five people that you surround yourself with you know take a look at their incomes take a look at their you know how they live and like you’re the average of them yeah and you know I see how my life has changed I’m in a new relationship with someone who has um brought me around the world with them I mean I say brought me well actually she did take care of she had so many frequent flyer miles you know which she lined up the airplanes but like we’ve we’ve traveled around the world we’ve been to Europe we’ve been to Mexico twice we’ve been to Europe twice this isn’t just over a year we’ve been back and forth um to New York we’ve been up and down the state of California I mean Florida we’ve covered a lot of ground and she lives a really big life which has a vast number of friends in her life um my my world up until then was kind of the picture of uh of a person living in the suburbs during covid where you know the outing was going to the park with your dog in the evening and then coming home and making yourself dinner and watching the news to see how many people died of covet or have been infected or like that world was pretty small and it was comfortable but I had fewer friends and uh you know what’s happened in this expansion for me is my income has increased significantly my circle of friends has increased significantly um people who were kind of holding me back or who weren’t they were Frenemies or they weren’t as positive um they’ve been sort of not dropped but sort of like let go a little bit a lot um and so I think that there’s no question if you want to know what your life is looking like you know look at the five people that you’re closest to it’s been the most time with and and you’re the average of those people probably in terms of income in terms of drug use in terms of success in terms of you know books you read all that stuff yeah 100 and you said something you said the word Frenemies and this is something I want you guys listening right now to hear this conversation when we’re talking about what a frenemy is right so what do you what is your definition of somebody that’s a friend of me and how do you recognize that and cut it out whoa so a friend of me is a is a friend who is an enemy of your you know your greatest good or or of the of the best person that you could be so they kind of they hold you back from being the best person that you can be um the ones that I know uh they’re not coach like they’re kind of they’re either arrogant or judgmental and and so uh this can be really toxic if you’re trying to grow um right I mean someone says you can’t do this you can’t do that um then you kind of need to remove yourself from that situation and from that person yeah you know it’s funny because uh I’m saying this you know listen to myself and I’m thinking of the partner that in my life that I was just talking about and she says that I’m really negative with her sometimes because like we had a really good massage yesterday and she she said you know we could do that and I found that in the past when I’ve asked her for massage she loses interest in about five or ten minutes she her attentionality goes somewhere else the phone rings so I said but you know you never do it for more than five or ten minutes so like and I was kind of more sarcastic and teasing than that yeah he’s like there you know that’s not very good coaching like you’re you’re a coach and you’re telling me that like I can’t do it why don’t you say uh you can do it and you know and I’m like well but it’s not been my experience that you’ve every time you’ve like not done it so so I think it’s challenging I think we always have to look in the mirror ourselves you know I’ve been criticized by family members and and step family members that I’m coaching them when they just want a parent or you know or a friend so we have to we have to look at ourselves and how we’re showing up yeah 100 I think that’s what that’s what’s so interesting about these kinds of conversations is that when you’re when you’re in a place like you and I are right where we’re we’re coaching other people or we’re talking about other people right when we’re or you know helping other people and when we start to recognize you know oh well that’s actually for me have you ever been coaching someone in like just something some gold comes out of your mouth and you’re like that was for me that that might have been for you but that was definitely for me right I need to be doing that I can’t think of a recent time that I’ve done that but I I can laugh because I think that that has happened for sure yeah absolutely and so when when these Frenemies come up right and my definition of a frenemy is basically the exact same right like somebody that you know um doesn’t believe in what you truly want to become and a friend of me can even be very very subtle about it right because what they do and the reason why they’re called a frenemy because what they’ll do is they will do their best to help you with negativity like because they believe that in this box they believe in this box that you guys are living in and if you’re going to try to climb out of this box they want to keep you safe like no get down here get down here and they’ll pull you down right and the way that we need to recognize this especially for us that are in recovery right is who is doing working feeling building a life that we would want to have and when we come with them with a celebration if we got a promotion if we you know if we got new income or if we’re planning on writing a book or these kinds of things the friends that we bring those to that celebrate with us those are the friends we want to keep yeah and if there’s a if their friends are you know subconsciously like oh you’re writing a book about your story like don’t you think you shouldn’t put that out what what do you think people will think about you you know they’re trying to protect you because I had people do that to me but in reality they’re they’re pulling you down right they’re pulling you down so what do you do to do you have a conversation with the people that you need to cut out and just say hey I need to cut you out or how do you how do you do that yeah I think that my style is uh more of a conflict avoidance approach and so it’s more of I just sort of lessen my engagement and activity with him and I start I distance myself a little bit um and then if in a moment that it’s done that I find that it’s hurtful uh I’ll bring it up in the moment yeah but I typically have found that those people will be either defensive or completely dumbfounded when I do that yeah and then I have one friend who’s come back to me like later on and said you know hey I’m really sorry I was doing that yeah it was my intention yeah and then there’s usually like a butt you know it’s a yeah but yeah I’m like okay that doesn’t work for me sorry no yeah buds right so why would somebody be defensive versus dumbfounded

defensive because that’s not how they would do it and they think that they’re right and um I’m not sure you know maybe you have the answer but this question what do you think what I was what I was thinking is that you know if if you have a friend right and they’re saying something or doing something or acting a certain way that is that is harming you that you feel is harming you and it happens in that moment and you’re able to say something to them about it like hey I really don’t like when you when you say something like that to me because it does this to me right if they’re defensive of that of that action then they are invalidating your feelings correct they are invalidating your beliefs and your your pain and that’s somebody that just needs to be like you don’t need them in your life period if somebody is not willing to validate your pain they’re not ever going to help you right if somebody’s dumbfounded what I would think is they’re like oh my gosh I I didn’t even realize I was doing this thank you for bringing it to my awareness yeah how can we how can we work on this together yeah and the beautiful thing about addiction recovery in the 12-step work right guys is that we learn these spiritual principles and if we are willing to have those conversations with our friends not only is that friend that you’re having that conversation with going to let we’re going to go with the dumbfounded one that friend that’s dumbfounded is going to be able to grow from that situation also so the relationship will actually grow Deeper by bringing these things up that are harming us in our friendship group right and when we are when we’re building our fellowships and we’re building our friendships our our group our core group of people we have to be intentional we can’t be you know and I’m talking specifically to a to a group of people right yeah people that have you know have been in addiction for a while and they go into these fellowships and for the first time they’re you know reconnecting with people we can’t be attaching based on loneliness to people to to get rid of that feeling right yeah so Jonathan where can people like let’s say there is someone that is you know getting ready to sell their family business or something where should where should somebody get a hold of you yeah so I mean if you go to my website the goldhillgroup.com that’s t-h-e Gold Hill like my name group.com um you can find blogs you can find my podcasts uh you can learn about the coaching programs you know my coaching programs are principally for Next Generation leaders I do coach people who are looking to exit typically uh if you’re like two to three out years out from exiting then that’s probably the a better situation because we can really plan what needs to be done to improve your business um when people call me and they’re like yeah I want to sell my business since three months six months away I mean at that point I’m like you know what you should just let me refer you to an intermediary if I have one that I know might help you and uh and he’ll work with you to you know clean it up a little bit so it’s sellable and put a book together so either way though happy to talk to people about their situations whether they’re you know I mean I I’m not really working with startups these days so I kind of progressed past that I did that for many years in my 30s that was a long time ago it’s been fun it’s been fun so Jonathan I appreciate you coming uh it’s been an honor and we’re gonna play the uh we didn’t take a halftime break okay we’re gonna close with the uh with the notification of what’s going on here at recovered on purpose I love you guys so much keep living recovered on purpose what’s up recovered on purpose family I hope you’re enjoying this episode as much as I do when I’m making them guys if you’re getting any value from this if you’re seeing any golden nuggets that you want to share with your community make sure that you are you’re sharing it with your groups you’re sharing it with your personal page or your pages or to that one person that you’re thinking of right now and their messenger so that they get this message and guys the brand new recovered on purpose website is up and it has a whole bunch of different merchandise and resources and the free calls with me so make sure you’re checking out recovered on purpose.com after the show and if you are a loved one of an addict if you have a kid that’s suffering an addiction I’m now doing free calls that we can strategize and find out how we can get them clean and keep them

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